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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:44:37 am» quote
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BBC NEWS
Anti-depressants 'of little use'
New generation anti-depressants have little clinical benefit for most patients, research suggests.
A University of Hull team concluded that the drugs helped only a small group of the most severely depressed.
Marjorie Wallace, head of the mental health charity Sane, said that if these results were confirmed they could be "very disturbing".
But the makers of Prozac and Seroxat, two of the commonest anti-depressants, said they disagreed with the findings.
A spokesman for GlaxoSmithKline, which makes Seroxat, said the study only looked at a "small subset of the total data available".
Reviewed data
And Eli Lilly, which makes Prozac, said that "extensive scientific and medical experience has demonstrated it is an effective anti-depressant".
In total, the Hull team, who published their findings in the journal PLoS Medicine, reviewed data on 47 clinical trials.
They reviewed published clinical trial data, and unpublished data secured under Freedom of Information legislation.
They focused on drugs in the class known as Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs), which work by increasing levels of the mood controlling chemical serotonin in the brain.
These included fluoxetine (Prozac), venlafaxine (Efexor) and paroxetine (Seroxat) - all commonly prescribed in the UK.
"There seems little reason to prescribe anti-depressant medication to any but the most severely depressed patients"
Professor Irving Kirsch
University of Hull
The number of prescriptions for anti-depressants hit a record high in England in 2006 - even though official guidance stresses they should not be a first line treatment for mild depression.
The researchers found that even the positive effects seen on severely depressed patients were relatively small, and open to interpretation.
The seemingly good result came from the fact that these patients responded less to dummy pills (placebos) which they were given during trials, rather than any notable response to anti-depressants.
Lead researcher Professor Irving Kirsch said: "The difference in improvement between patients taking placebos and patients taking anti-depressants is not very great.
"This means that depressed people can improve without chemical treatments.
"Given these results, there seems little reason to prescribe anti-depressant medication to any but the most severely depressed patients, unless alternative treatments have failed to provide a benefit."
Professor Kirsch said the findings called into question the current system of reporting drug trials.
Revieweing guidance
Dr Tim Kendall, deputy director of the Royal College of Psychiatrists Research Unit, has published research concluding that drug companies tend only to publish research which shows their products in a good light.
He said the Hull findings undermined confidence in the ability to draw meaningful conclusions about the merit of drugs based on published data alone.
He called for drug companies to be forced to publish all their data.
The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) is currently reviewing its guidance on the use of antidepressants.
Marjorie Wallace of Sane commented: "If these results were upheld in further studies, they would be very disturbing.
"The newer anti-depressants were the great hope for the future.... These findings could remove what has been seen as a vital choice for thousands in treating what can be a life-threatening condition."
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/health/7263494.stm
Published: 2008/02/26 01:23:12 GMT
© BBC MMVIII
BBC says anti-depressant medication is bullshit (3044 views)
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:46:19 am» quote
- THE SCIENTOLOGISTS ARE RIGHT
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quite_FRANKLY posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:48:43 am» quote
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"There seems little reason to prescribe anti-depressant medication to any but the most severely depressed patients"
for real? FOR REAL?
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:50:15 am» quote
- OH YOU FUNNY MAN!
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quite_FRANKLY posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:52:45 am» quote
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babelfish posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:49:18 am
I'm inclined to mention that the Beeb might have to go bloody bugger itself bloody shite innit
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professor$1.50 posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:55:56 am» quote
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AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN fuck all these antidepressants, fuck mcdonalds, eat yr veggies and get sunlight and FIX yr problems
</end rant>
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:04:31 am» quote
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I always knew pharmeceutical companies were fucking slimeballs, but man, science + capitalism = bad science it seems:
"Dr Tim Kendall, deputy director of the Royal College of Psychiatrists Research Unit, has published research concluding that drug companies tend only to publish research which shows their products in a good light.
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quite_FRANKLY posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:22:08 am» quote
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Dr Tim Kendall, deputy director of the Royal College of Psychiatrists Research Unit, has published research concluding that drug companies tend only to publish research which shows their products in a good light.
F O R R E A L ????
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:24:38 am» quote
- i think you are pissed that you have been placeboed.
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quite_FRANKLY posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:32:10 am» quote
- no, i'm mental cause i'm on the pill
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HUGLAGHALGHALGHAL posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:04:34 am» quote
- A further sign that there is a need for more publicly funded drug R&D.
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lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 5:22:51 am» quote
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maggie posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:20:57 am
sidenote: genesis p-orridge went to hull.
maybe it's the cheap chardonnay speaking, but i think i might be in love with maggie.
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thomas posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 8:04:41 am» quote
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and the doctors got 'em poppin pills from the start
sayin A.D.D, "hey take these"
fuck one, take three
sell half to pay me
they take fiends and make cream
then wonder why we can't stay clean when it's always the same scene
so we daydream to escape todays schemes
on the other side but which way's green?
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Lindsay Lohandjob posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 8:06:26 am» quote
- this is total bullshit. more on this later.
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stainedandlit posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 8:42:41 am» quote
- are they actually saying they don't 'work' or that they're overprescribed?
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Colonial Wburg posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 9:54:25 am» quote
- ITT people lack critical reading skills.
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 9:58:42 am» quote
- maybe they are just depressed, evan
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stainedandlit posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:00:26 am» quote
- well I just don't see where they're disputing the science/pharmacological reality of how these drugs work. if you look at it from the perspective that they're overprescribed, then yeah, a lot of people who didn't them in the first place may be more influenced by placebo, right?
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:08:09 am» quote
- yeah, anybody who has taken them can attest to the fact that they rewire your brain in a way a placebo just couldn't. you can feel the effects really strongly. i don't get the press account of this study, and i don't have time to read the actual study which i'm sure is much more measured in its claims.
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:09:04 am» quote
- also, you can totally, strongly feel the difference if you accidentally take the wrong dosage, which doesn't make sense if it's all placebo.
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:10:34 am» quote
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the press account just seems to be saying that they do something, but that something is something other than "curing depression"
but i would think most people would realize that that's not exactly a precisely defined thing
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:15:13 am» quote
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yeah, i mean, everybody's brain chemistry is so unique that you have to experiment with different ones to find what works for you, so it makes sense it wouldn't help everybody under the wide umbrella of depression. but it seems incontrovertible that they help many people, significantly.
but i do agree that drug companies should be forced to publish ALL their research. there was a good law and order about that.
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theotherianmeyer posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:15:28 am» quote
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:10:34 am
the press account just seems to be saying that they do something, but that something is something other than "curing depression"
but i would think most people would realize that that's not exactly a precisely defined thing
i can agree with the "do something... other than curing depression" for both antidepressants i tried. one of them, I did feel "better", but at the same time, it just killed both extremes of emotion, so while I wasn't as bummed out and unmotivated and all the other crap that had been going on, I couldn't get really excited or happy about anything either. I quit cold turkey, which fucked me up even more for a few weeks, but I haven't looked back.
I heartily believe that the vast majority of people on antidepressants can function fine without them if they put some effort forth. Some people really do /need/ them, and I think as a short-term resolution they're more widely appropriate, but still nothing on the scale that they're used in modern western medicine.
plus:
teamphil posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 7:01:42 am
...also the suicide rate is much higher for people on these drugs
so true
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:17:33 am» quote
- it's probably not a good idea to universalize one's own idiosyncratic experience with psychopharmaceuticals. 'put in some effort and toughen up' is kind of offensive in this context.
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Colonial Wburg posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:24:27 am» quote
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thomas posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:16:48 am
for damn sure, no one ever wrote a great song on anti-depressants
Prove it.
teamphil posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 7:01:42 am
...also the suicide rate is much higher for people on these drugs
Correlation /= Causation
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:28:41 am» quote
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Colonial Wburg posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:24:27 am
teamphil posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 7:01:42 am
...also the suicide rate is much higher for people on these drugs
Correlation /= Causation
yeah, duh. most heroin users started out using weed. also, cheerios.
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theasianelaine posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:30:26 am» quote
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a good friend of mine was severely depressed and, though he did see a psychiatrist, ended up not taking the medications they wanted to give him - probably because of the stigma against it. And then he killed himself.
I guess he wasn't tough enough, eh guys?
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stainedandlit posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:31:49 am» quote
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:17:33 am
it's probably not a good idea to universalize one's own idiosyncratic experience with psychopharmaceuticals. 'put in some effort and toughen up' is kind of offensive in this context.
x1000000
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:33:36 am» quote
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serieness posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:30:20 am
i have gotten into numerous arguments with friends on anti-depressants. A lot of them would take them when they would break up with their s.o. and such. It's life. Deal with it.
well i knew a kid who snorted smarties. i guess that means they don't taste good and we should ban them.
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serieness posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:40:26 am» quote
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:33:36 am
serieness posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:30:20 am
i have gotten into numerous arguments with friends on anti-depressants. A lot of them would take them when they would break up with their s.o. and such. It's life. Deal with it.
well i knew a kid who snorted smarties. i guess that means they don't taste good and we should ban them.
..
what?
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:42:49 am» quote
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because some people misuse or abuse something does not mean that they are not effective in the proper (or just other) contexts, is what i am saying.
and saying "it's life," while i sympathize to a degree, just doesn't cover it. the same could be said about brain chemistry, abuse, mental illness, etc etc etc. all of those things are "life" as well.
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teamphil posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:56:51 am» quote
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:28:41 am
Colonial Wburg posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 10:24:27 am
teamphil posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 7:01:42 am
...also the suicide rate is much higher for people on these drugs
Correlation /= Causation
yeah, duh. most heroin users started out using weed. also, cheerios.
uhm....
i guess people dont read much..... there have been numerous studies...
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=3862559
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/13/AR2006121300452.html
http://pediatrics.about.com/cs/mentalhealth/a/psymeds_suicide_2.htm
i dont have time to argue with people now, i have to work, but feel free to argue with me after work.
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 11:01:50 am» quote
- no! instead of arguing with you and facing the fact that i may be wrong i will choose to pop a pill.
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Colonial Wburg posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 11:03:55 am» quote
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teamphil, I am familiar with the study you've linked.
Again, you need to improve your critical reading skills.
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teamphil posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 11:06:14 am» quote
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i dont give a shit what people choose to do.....
my concern is over the science that goes into such pharmaceuticals.....
america's quick fix for a cure blinds the fda and the public from seeing or even publishing the adverse effects of said drugs.
these drugs may actually do some "good" in changing some chemical levels in your body, but the full extent of what they do and the long term effects are not yet known.
most drugs take 15-20 years to get to market, these get there in under 10.....
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thomas posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 11:19:29 am» quote
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people fear what they don't understand and an abnormal thought, "thinking outside the box" is a danger to those who seek controlled society so prescriptions to numb the minds of children are only a reaction of that fear
I will always remember reading the book "The Giver" when I was like 12 years old and how everything was black & white and one day the kid escaped to find a world of color
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gackandcheese posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 11:36:36 am» quote
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i'll point out cw's point:
New generation anti-depressants have little clinical benefit for most patients, research suggests.
They focused on drugs in the class known as Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs), which work by increasing levels of the mood controlling chemical serotonin in the brain.
this is not ALL anti-depressants, kids
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ghobot posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 11:36:50 am» quote
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i am sure you all know this, but drugs are poison. all of them. and when doctors prescribe something to you, its based on years and years in school and training being told this is what you prescribe. this decision can be completely remote from understanding what the drug does or if it even works. when a new drug comes out, the medical community is inundated with propaganda to change this doctor decision to the new product. its been like this forever.
MD's (less DO's) prescribe drugs. thats what they do. thats how they are trained and rarely is it a cure of the disease, but more so, a decrease in the symptoms.
pharmaceutical companys are a business. they make some drugs that work and some drugs that work less. they are definitely not in the business to cure things. they are in the business to make chemicals, find out how those chemicals affect us, then either find an existing disease to link that drug to, or find a new disease to market the drug to. ie: restless leg syndrome.
anti depressants have efficacy, but are over prescribed. they do work for very difficult cases.
HUGLAGHALGHALGHAL posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:04:34 am
A further sign that there is a need for more publicly funded drug R&D.
almost our entire system is publicly funded. have you heard of the NIH? and academic institutions? that is what they do. they do the research that drug companies then take to make a product. both, as it is now, are connected at every level.
before i worked with labor and premature birth, i was in a structural biology lab that looked at model proteins. this type of research is heavily funded by both sides. why? because its the crux of all drug development. shit is nefarious and as bad as you think because its capitalism at its best. dont get me wrong, they do end up with wonderful drugs from time to time, because the foundation of the drug is sound science, but side effects, and efficacy are too low on the list for these companies.
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teamphil posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 11:44:48 am» quote
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ghobot posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 11:36:50 am
almost our entire system is publicly funded. have you heard of the NIH? and academic institutions? that is what they do. they do the research that drug companies then take to make a product. both, as it is now, are connected at every level.
i agree, but since bush took office, all this money has almost disappeared, unless you are doing anti-terrorism research.....
grants and funding are becoming very scarce......
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 11:45:51 am» quote
- i will stick by my first post, SCIENTOLOGISTS ARE RIGHT!!!!
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ghobot posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 11:48:24 am» quote
- teamphil, as much as bush has decreased research money its still a ridiculous amount of money. science research gets funded, period. not everything is about stem cells. its not even CLOSE to almost disappeared. i dont know where you heard that.
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 11:50:05 am» quote
- i worked at a blue chip managament consulting company in the pharmaceutical practice, and it was just shocking how mercenary that shit got. like, how to use the vulnerabilities of seniors to trick them into buying non-generics when generics work better, etc., etc., nastier behavior than noam chomsky could ever imagine.
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doom posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 11:50:26 am» quote
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thomas posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 11:19:29 am
people fear what they don't understand and an abnormal thought, "thinking outside the box" is a danger to those who seek controlled society so prescriptions to numb the minds of children are only a reaction of that fear
I will always remember reading the book "The Giver" when I was like 12 years old and how everything was black & white and one day the kid escaped to find a world of color
thomas, i think you should go reread that book. (although, its actual ending is kind of ironic, given what we're talking about.)
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ghobot posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 11:52:00 am» quote
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teamphil posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 11:49:58 am
well, the building i work in at rutgers, which is made up of about 15 different labs are not getting grants.....
we are told that our research is great, but the moneny isnt there...
what research are you doing??? and who is telling you this?
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doom posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 11:53:23 am» quote
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yesterday, i went to my new pcp for the first time. i was waiting in the exam room across from his little office, and these two pharmaceutical salesmen were hovering around outside waiting for him to walk by. when he finally comes to see me, they literally tackle him with an ambien sales pitch. he was like, "i don't have time for this, i have a patient" and they're all, "she can wait!"
>:(
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Colonial Wburg posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 11:54:17 am» quote
- ITT ANECDOTES!
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ghobot posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 11:56:28 am» quote
- doom, thats how it works. dinners, lunches, golf outings, free shit, broadway shows, it never ends. you should ask your doctor when they prescribe you something, to truthfully tell you when the last time they went to one of these events.
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 11:56:51 am» quote
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Colonial Wburg posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 11:54:17 am
ITT ANECDOTES!
hahah i wonder at what point we will get completely sick of having to teach people how to have an argument. NOT YET, OF COURSE
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9 y.o. virgin posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 11:59:02 am» quote
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1. I get hot when greg talks all official-like
2. I take a small dose of anti-anxiety meds (which aren't included in the BBC article) that really help me
3. taking pillz r00lz
4. jarrod posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 7:54:59 am
whatever. even placebos work.
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doom posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 12:01:15 pm» quote
- no, i knew they did that. i remember fighting with a clinic doctor once because he INSISTED that a generic would not work, and refused to write me a rx for anything other than a brand name. since my plan charges me $60 for brands but doesn't charge for generics, i told him he could write me the generic rx or nothing at all.
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 12:02:35 pm» quote
- that doctor should be reported. for serious.
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ghobot posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 12:04:49 pm» quote
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 12:02:35 pm
that doctor should be reported. for serious.
and this what do what? its not illegal to make a judgment that a brand name is better than a generic.
team phil, brine shrimp research rules though. what particular part of trascription/translation???? (disclaimer, this conversation will continue only to serve the purpose of making niner wet)
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ghobot posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 12:06:46 pm» quote
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teamphil posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 12:03:54 pm
i just like it when you have a the flu and they give antibiotics. flu = virus, antibiotics kill bacteria, not viruses, hence the prefix "anti"
ha, you should see how patients fight with doctors who dont want to give antibiotics in that situation.
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 12:07:00 pm» quote
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if anyone has serious issues with this study, here it is:
http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0050045&ct=1
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teamphil posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 12:12:43 pm» quote
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ghobot, the transcription/translation research involves microRNAs and control, which is great, but we work with yeast and i guess they figure the time it takes to get this into human research i was too long....
i def think drs should prescribe placebos more often, because the patients just want something tangible, regardless if it works or not.
people need to pay more attention in high school bio class....
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 12:14:27 pm» quote
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doom posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 12:09:13 pm
i did end up reporting him, but not for that. he made a totally inappropriate comment during the examination that i thought was pretty unprofessional.
!!! what did he say?
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ghobot posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 12:15:07 pm» quote
- ha doctors should not prescribe placebos because that is deception and not service. if someone needs to be thought into curing themselves, the patient is the issue here. patients have to trust that their bodies are made to combat most illnesses.
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doom posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 12:19:39 pm» quote
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i asked him if the rx was going to interfere with my birth control, and he said, "don't worry. you can just go get an abortion."
i think it was the way he said it that made it offensive, because i laugh about it now. but at the time i was pissed.
this was at docs on 34th st btw
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 12:27:32 pm» quote
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doom posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 12:19:39 pm
i asked him if the rx was going to interfere with my birth control, and he said, "don't worry. you can just go get an abortion."
holy shit!! :0
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 12:32:15 pm» quote
- well, that's actually pretty affordable. thanks to satan.
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doom posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:08:04 pm» quote
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ghobot posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 12:15:07 pm
ha doctors should not prescribe placebos because that is deception and not service. if someone needs to be thought into curing themselves, the patient is the issue here. patients have to trust that their bodies are made to combat most illnesses.
i'm getting way off track but i really hate hypochondriacs. i know a guy who once WENT TO THE ER with his zoloft and a bottle of nyquil and demanded to know if he could take them together.
apparently he was really worried about serotonin shock [en.wikipedia.org]
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jarrod posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:12:01 pm» quote
- i appreciate that a lot people take medication unnecessarily, but keep in mind that clinical depression is one of the very few diseases where people's reaction is often, "oh, just get over yourself, you crybaby". you would never tell a person with multiple sclerosis that he needs to "get more sunlight".
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:14:41 pm» quote
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ha like that mitch hedberg joke about how alcoholism is the only disease you're allowed to be mad about.
god damn it otto, you have lupus!
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:29:15 pm» quote
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maggie posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:15:23 pm
dupont gave me herpes.
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:30:34 pm» quote
- lol
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ghobot posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:34:32 pm» quote
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SORRY THIS IS IN CAPS. IT WONT TURN OFF.
WE LIVE IN A VERY BENEFICIAL TIME FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE HIV, HAVE HEALTHCARE AND LIVE IN AMERICA. THE NEW COCKTAIL DRUGS THAT ARE IN THE PIPE AND ON THE MARKET WILL AND HAVE HELPED MANY PEOPLE LIVE LONGER AND RELATIVELY HEALTHY LIVES. FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE HIV IT IS REPEATEDLY STATED GOOD RESULTS CAN ONLY BE ACHIEVED WHEN THE PATIENT TAKES RESPONSIBILITY TO IMPROVE THEIR LIFESTYLE AND FOLLOW STRICT ADHERANCE. YOU JUST CANT BE WHO YOU WANT TO BE. YOUR LIFESTYLE CHOICES ARE LIMITED.
THE DRUGS ARE NOT THE CURE ALL. THEY FACILITATE CONDITIONS FOR GOOD HEALTH. MENTAL ILLNESS IN THIS COUNTRY TO OFTEN IS RELEGATED TO THE WORK OF DRUGS AND NOT THE EFFORT OF THE PATIENT. BY NO MEANS DOES THAT MEAN ITS NOT DIFFICULT. NOR DOES IT MEAN ITS CORRECT WHEN PEOPLE SAY 'GET OVER IT' BECAUSE FOR MOST ITS THE INABILITY FOR ONES MIND TO GET OVER IT. THATS THE HARDWIRED FLAW IN THE PERSONS CONDITION.
DEPRESSION TAKES MANY FORMS, BUT WITH ALL OF THEM, LIVING WITH IT IN A FORM THAT IS TOLERABLE DEMANDS LIFESTYLE CHANGES.
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:36:07 pm» quote
- i agree, it's a great time to have aids!!
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:37:47 pm» quote
- hahahaha
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:40:30 pm» quote
- not when it comes to getting laid!
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:40:41 pm» quote
- haha i love how the all caps makes that post seem like you're standing on a crate in the castro screaming about how awesome aids is lol
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stainedandlit posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:42:47 pm» quote
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Okay so I read the actual article and it seems the implicatons ARE related to over prescribing.
Namely, that the NICE has been reevaluating its guidelines for the treatment of depression/prescribing of ADs, and this paper will be considered along with other research to determine whether there needs to be a more stringent benchmark for prescribing ADs (ie, attempt and failure of other therapies, specific rating on the HRSD scale, etc). Considering it's socialized medicine, the result may be that doctors have less freedom to give SSRIs to patients who don't meet the new criteria.
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:43:51 pm» quote
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apparently there are 40 million users of prozac in the US. Thats 1/8 of the total population.
There are a lot of people in that group who could justifiably be told to get over it.
The tragic thing is that these assholes are ruining it for the minority who need the drugs via providing the rationale for the "GET OVER IT" critique of the american pharmaceutical complex.
The upside is that they probably bring down the cost per unit.
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:45:12 pm» quote
- also, more seriously, no offense to ghobot, but i think you've swallowed the aidsy koolaid. i unfortunately know a lot of people living with hiv/aids, and their lives are foooooked up. the side effects are horrendous, after a certain number of years their livers collapse from trying to deal with these heavy duty drugs, a lot of them go from drug cocktail to drug cocktail, and somehow even the ones with 'healthy' levels of virus and antibodies are still the only people i know who get bizarre illnesses on the regs. for example look at jack on project runway and his freakish mouth infection. the cocktails don't work THAT well, and aids is soooo not over.
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doom posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:46:15 pm» quote
- jordivision - JUST prozac? i could believe that figure if it was all SSRIs combined, but my understanding about prozac was that it's not being prescribed that much anymore. and that there would be 40 million users of a single brand of SSRI is kind of unbelievable.
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augmented skankbot posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:46:17 pm» quote
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Lexapro was fantastic!
The BBC could use some!
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:46:41 pm» quote
- this is very important to me, because the demographic i like to sleep with (younger guys) all seem to think aids is over, which then puts ME at risk. just use condoms, god.
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:47:07 pm» quote
- leave it to chris to turn a deadly incurable pandemic into a bum out
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:47:27 pm» quote
- haha
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:47:47 pm» quote
- sorry for making aids less fun!
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:47:58 pm» quote
- my bad, 40 million people in the world, not just the us. whoops.
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:51:36 pm» quote
- haha yeah if god had used condoms adam and eve would never have been misbegotten and we'd all be like ceraphim or whatever.
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:52:29 pm» quote
- Im pretty sure god only ever boned Mary.
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:54:02 pm» quote
- mary never boned ANYONE. this is why she's the perfect choice to be the embodiment of femininity
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:54:03 pm» quote
- true, so then we'd all be jews! even better!
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:55:13 pm» quote
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jarrod posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:54:11 pm
God hates Heath Ledger
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:57:00 pm» quote
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atwb at age 16 posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:55:59 pm
what if god was one of us just a slob like one of us?
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theotherianmeyer posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:04:51 pm» quote
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stepping back in for a minute after my inflammatory post earlier...
jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 1:43:51 pm
apparently there are 40 million users of prozac in the US. Thats 1/8 of the total population.
There are a lot of people in that group who could justifiably be told to get over it.
The tragic thing is that these assholes are ruining it for the minority who need the drugs via providing the rationale for the "GET OVER IT" critique of the american pharmaceutical complex.
The upside is that they probably bring down the cost per unit.
that's my point. not that people who really are sick need to be just told to "get over it", but that a lot, i'd say most, people that are on antidepressants aren't sick, they don't have a chemical defect or imbalance in their brain, none of that, they're just sad, and you know what? they need to get the fuck over it.
i say that with my background being that I was on antidepressants, they "worked", and while I was able to stop taking them, its not easy. I have a long family history of depression, and I think that if they could draw blood and diagnose it, I would have it, but I'd rather trudge through life than be a doped-up robot. That's a personal choice. If someone else in my exact same situation decided to go the medication route, that would be different than some kid who's bummed about exams getting a scrip from student health just to "get through a rough time", and that kid deserved to be told "no, you don't get meds. you're not broken, you just need to get some help, talk to someone, and you'll be fine"
wow, that spiraled out of control.
summary: lots of people on antidepressants shouldn't be, and deserve to be told to "toughen up". That could also involve psychiatric treatment/seeing a shrink, and not be a complete blow-off.
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lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:06:14 pm» quote
- i really can't believe some of the things being said in this thread.
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lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:09:53 pm» quote
- kind of, yeah.
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doom posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:13:57 pm» quote
- unfortunately there's such a huge stigma against getting therapy - STILL. i know too many people who will take the pills but refuse to go talk to a psychiatrist. if only psychiatrists were allowed to prescribe medication to patients who were continually under their care, we'd see far less people taking them.
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:17:54 pm» quote
- implying that some people shouldn't be on medication always gets the shit flying in all directions.
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lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:18:03 pm» quote
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well, talk therapy doesn't really work for something like panic disorder the way medication does. they've done studies that people can actually become "cured" of panic disorder by being on certain medicines for a few years because they retrain the brain (who i'm pretty sure toured with Noo Shooz back in 86).
and chemical imbalances are chemical... so unless you're suggesting therapy for diabetes as well, i'm kind of lost on this argument.
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theotherianmeyer posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:20:36 pm» quote
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Yup, I got 90 days of samples from my general practice doc, who perscribed them by matching up my symptoms to a chart (conveniently provided one of by the pharma companies)... "oh you've got this, this, this, and this going on. that falls mostly into this category, why don't you try this drug"
If it took a shrink to prescribe more than 30 days of antidepressants, you'd see a lot of folks who don't really need it not getting it anymore.
You could make the argument that it would effectively shut-out lower-income people (who are also more likely to be depressed, thus heightening the impact) due to the additional time/cost requirements, and that would be a large hurdle to overcome, but still...
Also:
lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:06:14 pm
i really can't believe some of the things being said in this thread.
ZOMG! People are questioning the medicated society! They're saying that its possible that pills aren't the answer to everyone's problem, and that some people just need to take personal responsibility for their own happiness instead of finding it in a bottle! Inconcievable!
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:22:10 pm» quote
- there were also studies about how talk therapy changes neurochemicals after a number of years, in a more lasting way and with no side effects other than boring strangers to death at bars as you babble about your issues.
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:23:38 pm» quote
-
question:
do they find out if you are chemically imbalanced via MRI or some such thing or purely by symptoms?
Because if its only by symptoms, this is seeming phenological.
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stainedandlit posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:23:58 pm» quote
- i'm also not sure that GPs should be prescribing anti depressants anyway.
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theotherianmeyer posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:23:58 pm» quote
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lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:18:03 pm
well, talk therapy doesn't really work for something like panic disorder the way medication does. they've done studies that people can actually become "cured" of panic disorder by being on certain medicines for a few years because they retrain the brain (who i'm pretty sure toured with Noo Shooz back in 86).
and chemical imbalances are chemical... so unless you're suggesting therapy for diabetes as well, i'm kind of lost on this argument.
i really doubt that most people on antidepressants really have physical problems. i'd put money on that its a small minority, anywhere from 10-30%. those non-physically-affected people need to seek treatment other than popping pills, is my point.
i don't think any of us advocating less antidepressant use want physically-affected people to be denied treatment or told to "just get better", we just want the lazy people told that.
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:24:06 pm» quote
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theotherianmeyer posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:20:36 pm
ZOMG! People are questioning the medicated society! They're saying that its possible that pills aren't the answer to everyone's problem, and that some people just need to take personal responsibility for their own happiness instead of finding it in a bottle! Inconcievable!
speak truth to power girlfriend!
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:24:09 pm» quote
- *phrenological
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stainedandlit posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:25:34 pm» quote
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:23:38 pm
question:
do they find out if you are chemically imbalanced via MRI or some such thing or purely by symptoms?
Because if its only by symptoms, this is seeming phenological.
The Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression is the standard test.
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doom posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:25:36 pm» quote
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theotherianmeyer posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:20:36 pm
You could make the argument that it would effectively shut-out lower-income people (who are also more likely to be depressed, thus heightening the impact) due to the additional time/cost requirements, and that would be a large hurdle to overcome, but still...
That's the only thing about my argument that troubles me. The cost of therapy alone is astounding - I'd go back to a psychiatrist in a heartbeat, if either my insurance covered it or I could afford to pay costs out of pocket.
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:26:06 pm» quote
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theotherianmeyer posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:23:58 pm
i really doubt that most people on antidepressants really have physical problems. i'd put money on that its a small minority, anywhere from 10-30%.
sounds like a really well informed estimate.
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:27:41 pm» quote
- and it definitely doesn't sound like you're talking out your ass based on your personal experience, in a way that trivializes a difficult problem a lot of people really struggle with, which has a history of being trivialized by medical professionals as well as pop culture.
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theotherianmeyer posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:28:23 pm» quote
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doom posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:25:36 pm
That's the only thing about my argument that troubles me. The cost of therapy alone is astounding - I'd go back to a psychiatrist in a heartbeat, if either my insurance covered it or I could afford to pay costs out of pocket.
exactly. this is a problem for lots of non-essential/non-emergency care in this country anyway. even getting preventative/psychiatric care if you have insurance coverage is a pain in the ass. this is why healthcare overall needs to be reformed, with emphasis placed on preventative and non-emergency care
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Lindsay Lohandjob posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:29:49 pm» quote
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i have been trying for about ten minutes to not click on this thread. i did, i started reading it backwards, and i am already feeling my blood pressure rise. however, i am going to stop reading it and go do something productive with my time instead of needlessly making myself angry at a huge number of people i already dont respect for any reason.
THAT, my friends, is the power of having been on high doses of antidepressants for years, allowing for talk therapy to actually take root.
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Colonial Wburg posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:30:39 pm» quote
- Oh, man, Caroline. I saw you'd posted here and got really excited (
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:31:45 pm» quote
- lilo there were a couple funny parts with 5$, just skip to those.
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Lindsay Lohandjob posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:32:33 pm» quote
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hahaha. i'm TOO MENTALLY HEALTHY TODAY to yell at people.
relationships (with incredibly attractive people): life's natural antidepressant
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:34:04 pm» quote
- Im glad everyone is so hyped on a branch of medicine that listed being gay as a mental disorder 25 years ago.
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:34:29 pm» quote
- oh i thought eating an entire box of macaroni and cheese made with ice cream instead of milk was life's natural antidepressant.
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Lindsay Lohandjob posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:37:17 pm» quote
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jordan, are you serious?
listen you smug little fuck. i would be dead right now if it weren't for inhibiting the reuptake of my seratonin five years ago. dead. i would have killed myself. and i would be fucking dead. psychiatric medicine can save lives for people for whom clinical depression is a dire and endless disease with no end in sight. medicine made me able to actually sit through talk therapy without spending the whole time trying to trick my therapist into letting me go early.
i'm not trying to make this a personal issue but when you throw the DSM-IV SAID GAY IS A DISEASE shit in my face, yeah, "the shit's going to fly." so fuck you.
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lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:38:13 pm» quote
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theotherianmeyer-"ZOMG! People are questioning the medicated society! They're saying that its possible that pills aren't the answer to everyone's problem, and that some people just need to take personal responsibility for their own happiness instead of finding it in a bottle! Inconcievable!"
HAHAHAHA. You think this is a novel argument I've never heard before, and this is why I can't believe what I'm reading in this thread? I've never heard someone refer to our society as overmedicated! What's next- Mumia's innocent? You're blowing my mind!
And I love the "lazy people" comment. If someone is on anti-depressants and those anti-depressants make that person's quality of life better, why do you care if they could have done it "the hard way"?
I don't truck with these left-over Calivinist ideas: that suffering is somehow noble and/or "the easy way out" is something to be ashamed of.
Obviously some people mistakenly use anti-depressants as a panacea. Obviously our health care system means that insurance companies would rather spend less and cover scrips instead of therapy. But your arguments make you seem shrill and judgmental.
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:38:28 pm» quote
- OH IT IS ON
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Lindsay Lohandjob posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:38:43 pm» quote
- FROM NOW ON ANYONE WHO SAYS THEY THINK ANTIDEPRESSANTS ARE USELESS IS BASICALLY SAYING THEY WANT ME DEAD> SO FUCK YOU> SUCK A FUCK> AND FUCK A DUCK YOU FLYING FUCK
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Colonial Wburg posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:39:52 pm» quote
- ::fist pump!::
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:43:00 pm» quote
-
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theasianelaine posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:46:18 pm» quote
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hahaha, man! I had a point typed out but then realized I'd be making the same point atwb and llh have been this entire time. I FEEL REDUNDANT.
::pops a pill::
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:46:57 pm» quote
- hahaha at first i thought you wrote "poops a pill"
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Lindsay Lohandjob posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:47:41 pm» quote
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i was so calm until he threw the gay thing in there. yuck. seriously, yuck.
and honestly it is not as if i am blindly pro-pharma. i was on one particular medication that made me a lot worse and catatonic. but when the only other option is consistent suicidal ideation, all the time, forever, you keep looking, and you find the treatment that works for you. or you dont, and then you fucking die.
you dont LISTEN TO THE FUCKING BEATLES AND SUDDENLY FIND YOUR MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES TOTALLY CURED>
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:48:51 pm» quote
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gah. somewhere in this the fact that "some people legitimately need anti-depressants" was lost.
At any rate, with all respect to all the shit you have been through, not talking about whats wrong with psychiatry or over-prescription is not going to help anybody.
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stainedandlit posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:49:14 pm» quote
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:34:04 pm
Im glad everyone is so hyped on a branch of medicine that listed being gay as a mental disorder 25 years ago.
this is a ridiculous thing to say. we all know/accept that science is evolving, there's no way we can know everything about why this stuff does/doesn't work or who it works for or why or what these drugs will have done to us in fifty years, but as caroline posted and as common sense tells you, they do work for a lot of people. bundling all of psychiatry in with a great pharmaceutical conspiracy is some crimethinc bullshit.
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lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:49:57 pm» quote
- i really do believe a lot of this angst against anti-depressants springs from our cultural fascination with "boot-strap" success stories. suffering's not just fetishized by the the catholic cultures.
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tragicmilan posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:50:47 pm» quote
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"They focused on drugs in the class known as Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs), which work by increasing levels of the mood controlling chemical serotonin in the brain."
Notice this doesn't say "cure depression". The drug companies still can't say that these drugs cure anything called "depression", because all they know is that they have "been shown to be effective". They don't really know exactly how they work, just that people who take them don't seem to be as sad.
Also, equating mental disorders with physical ones is hardline materialism.
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Lindsay Lohandjob posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:51:35 pm» quote
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who's not talking about it?
Did you know that i was actually a volunteer for a patient advocacy group for patients and family members who had been negatively effected by anti-depressants?
throwing the depressed baby out with the overmedicated bathwater is not the way to go about bringing change to psychiatry.
but what you're doing, jordan, is perpetuating the stigma attached to people who seek psychiatric treatment. seriously, its fucked up.
seriously, fuck off.
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doom posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:51:41 pm» quote
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lindsay lohandjob posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:47:41 pm
and honestly it is not as if i am blindly pro-pharma.
i personally really hate how this issue is always seen as black and white. i hate how if you recognize the need that many people have for these drugs, you're just feeding the pharmaceutical companies.
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theasianelaine posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:52:31 pm» quote
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i have, in my short life, been around people ranging from normally depressed to psychotically depressed and yes, some of them don't need the pills they're being prescribed
BUT GUESS WHAT NOBODY WINS WHEN EVERYONE ELSE IS JUST LIKE "HEY MAN THE FUCK UP AND STOP WHINING. GET OVER IT!!!"
Also, I hate it how the people who say that kind of stuff always feel like adding "P.S. I recognize that the drugs may help a small population of the people who claim to have this disease" somehow makes it ok for them to be a non-empathetic bastard.
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lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:52:43 pm» quote
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like i said earlier- certain conditions HAVE been shown to be curable.
and again, diabetes isn't "curable" with insulin, but insulin helps people MANAGE their disease.
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theotherianmeyer posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:52:49 pm» quote
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:48:51 pm
gah. somewhere in this the fact that "some people legitimately need anti-depressants" was lost.
At any rate, with all respect to all the shit you have been through, not talking about whats wrong with psychiatry or over-prescription is not going to help anybody.
srsly, same here. i keep trying to point out that i'm not saying that physically sick people shouldn't be medicated. hope you have fun hanging out with artie mcstrawman.
ps: @ll: i want you dead.
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Lindsay Lohandjob posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:52:52 pm» quote
- you're never cured of depression, y'all. if you've suffered a major episode in your life, you have a 60% chance of it returning some time in your life. its an ongoing issue. AND OH YEAH< ITS FUCKING REAL>
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doom posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:53:07 pm» quote
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Slingtown posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:50:23 pm
anti depressants won't cure anything. not saying they don't help, but its not a cure
well, no shit. very few diseases are curable, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try like hell to manage the symptoms of those in the majority that aren't.
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:54:02 pm» quote
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tragicmilan posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:50:47 pm
Also, equating mental disorders with physical ones is hardline materialism.
do you believe in spirits or cartesian dualist nonsense or some shit? of course we're materialists.
lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:49:57 pm
i really do believe a lot of this angst against anti-depressants springs from our cultural fascination with "boot-strap" success stories. suffering's not just fetishized by the the catholic cultures.
that's an interesting point.
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Lindsay Lohandjob posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:54:25 pm» quote
- luckily for you, theotherianmeyer, i have already been ignoring you. in this, and every other thread you have started or posted in. so i am going to continue ignoring that, and not make your life on this board a living motherfucking hell for the rest of your interlife.
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Slingtown posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:56:21 pm» quote
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i had an episode about seven years ago around thanksgiving. for the first few years around that time shit was scary. after the first one i was told i need all these drugs. i took them for a month and said fuck it. in my case it worked. but like a great movie once said FUCK HAPPY.
but i have a hard time speaking on the subject with anyone who hasn't really been through it and i'm not talking the candy ass shit many people call depression
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lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:57:13 pm» quote
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asianelaine-"Also, I hate it how the people who say that kind of stuff always feel like adding "P.S. I recognize that the drugs may help a small population of the people who claim to have this disease" somehow makes it ok for them to be a non-empathetic bastard."
amen, sister.
and as much as i take this issue personally, i also find it fascinating on a theory level, because (like i keep saying) i think it shows so much about our society's ideas about DESERVING and EARNING, etc. and it's so intrinsically tied up with these puritan ideas about human beings being wretched and dirty and unworthy, etc. and i would love to talk about this without fighting with anyone.
sigh.
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tragicmilan posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:59:29 pm» quote
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lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:52:43 pm
like i said earlier- certain conditions HAVE been shown to be curable.
and again, diabetes isn't "curable" with insulin, but insulin helps people MANAGE their disease.
Yeah...but no one knows exactly what causes depression, or even what it "is". Mental health problems aren't the same as physical ones. Ask a psych grad student to give you a concise definition of "schizophrenia"...there simply isn't one. If you see it as simply a question of chemical imbalances, you're ignoring most of the fields of cognitive science, neurology, and psychoanalysis.
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lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:59:32 pm» quote
- haha- slingtown. i love it when girls at work are like, "meh. i'm depressed. i'm gonna eat chocolate because i'm so depressed."
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Lindsay Lohandjob posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:59:34 pm» quote
- jordan i would really love to hear you defend your argument about the dsm-iv listing gay as a disease being a good reason to stay off antidepressants. i really, really would.
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jane moffat posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:59:38 pm» quote
- caroline. you need to snap out of it! chill out! get a hold of yrself! grow up! man up! get a grip!
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:00:08 pm» quote
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ok. I will fuck off. But i never said or implied that depression was not real, not a disease, etc.
I did say that overprescription is causing depression to be trivialized. Its one of the reasons, and a big one, people say "get over it."
Again. I wasn't trying to offend you, realized i did, and feel bad about it.
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BabyKujo posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:01:27 pm» quote
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stainedandlit posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:49:14 pm
jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:34:04 pm
Im glad everyone is so hyped on a branch of medicine that listed being gay as a mental disorder 25 years ago.
this is a ridiculous thing to say
Really. It's ridiculous to point out that psychiatry has evolved? Should we forget this ever happened, or acknowledge it and learn from our mistakes?
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Lindsay Lohandjob posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:01:30 pm» quote
- i think what i need the most is a fucking martini in a glass frosted with crushed zoloft. i am just so depressed about the hole my thighs wore in the crotch of these jeans.
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Lindsay Lohandjob posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:02:24 pm» quote
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BabyKujo posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:01:27 pm
stainedandlit posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:49:14 pm
jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 2:34:04 pm
Im glad everyone is so hyped on a branch of medicine that listed being gay as a mental disorder 25 years ago.
this is a ridiculous thing to say
Really. It's ridiculous to point out that psychiatry has evolved? Should we forget this ever happened, or acknowledge it and learn from our mistakes?
he wasnt saying that it's evolved, ding dong.
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lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:02:31 pm» quote
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tragicmilan- i recognize this, but again, if something helps someone function or just feel better, the causes aren't the important part.
this reminds me of how everyone gets all riled up about whether homosexuality is caused via nature or nurture...when the real issue is why homosexuals are denied basic human rights. ya dig?
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:03:11 pm» quote
- i refuse to believe that the holes in the crotches of all my jeans have ANYTHING to do with thigh size.
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:03:36 pm» quote
- caroline, i thought it was implicit when i brought up phrenology and then the gay thing that I was talking about psychology's greatest hits.
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:04:39 pm» quote
- i'm about to poop a pill, people
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lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:06:10 pm» quote
- as long as you don't poop a PIL. that would hurt.
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:14:54 pm» quote
-
i was just reading about someone with some condition the treatment of which is blood letting, but she doesn't want her insurance to know she has it, so instead she donates blood every week.
THANKS FOR INTRODUCING THAT HORRIBLE DISEASE INTO THE BLOOD SUPPLY.
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lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:17:26 pm» quote
- WHAT?
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:20:17 pm» quote
- or just be goth?
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tragicmilan posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:20:49 pm» quote
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lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:02:31 pm
this reminds me of how everyone gets all riled up about whether homosexuality is caused via nature or nurture...when the real issue is why homosexuals are denied basic human rights. ya dig?
yeah, but the point of treating depression is to let people deal with it so they can live their lives. the problem is the options given to depressed people. the message society gives you regarding depression is "society is FINE. you are not. take this pill". this covers up the fact that there are lot of fucked up alienation type-things going on in society that could, concievably, make people depressed. it's putting the fault on the individual...saying they're defective in some way. that's the issue...not whether or not medication is effective in making someone "not depressed".
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Colonial Wburg posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:21:02 pm» quote
- Hey, before we get off on a tangent, can some asshole say that people just need to "drink a glass of harden the fuck up"? Thnx.
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Lindsay Lohandjob posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:23:07 pm» quote
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tragicmilan posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:20:49 pm
the message society gives you regarding depression is "society is FINE. you are not. take this pill". this covers up the fact that there are lot of fucked up alienation type-things going on in society that could, concievably, make people depressed.\
uh, have you ever been in psychiatric treatment or under the care of a therapist? because while "society" might be giving you this message (parents, the media, school? who is society?) any therapist worth their salt does not treat depression this way.
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:25:23 pm» quote
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doom posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:20:54 pm
5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:20:17 pm
or just be goth?
... too soon.
not for me, i'm 30!
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lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:27:45 pm» quote
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oh, i totally agree with you about society being a potential cause for plenty of "mental" illnesses, tragicmilan. our brains are complex, and they adapt to their environs in ways we might not have anticipated. i think ADD might actually be a reaction to the ways we receive information in modern society.
and i'm not a mouthpiece for big pharma- i'm just sick of this trite, jr. high punk rock kid shit. these "they're not gonna medicate me! and anyone who is on the MAN'S pills isn't an artist (and/or) is selling out bla bla bla" kind of arguments certain people on here are making when the issue is way more complex than overmedicating vs. sucking it up and working towards the redemption of happiness you've EARNED!
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jordivision posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:33:12 pm» quote
- those arguments are indeed weak, but they are not mine.
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ghobot posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:36:35 pm» quote
- who the fuck is saying that? i dont understand why people dont feel bad for people who are preyed on a business obsessed with the bottom line and selling as much drug to people, even in recreational setting. these are people that made viagra into tic tacs. i thought this was about over medication??
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lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:40:10 pm» quote
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theotherianmeyer:
some people just need to take personal responsibility for their own happiness instead of finding it in a bottle!
don't think any of us advocating less antidepressant use want physically-affected people to be denied treatment or told to "just get better", we just want the lazy people told that.
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Colonial Wburg posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:43:32 pm» quote
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I LOVE ALL OF THIS "WE DIDN'T SAY THAT! WE DIDN'T SAY THAT!" BULLSHIT! DO YOU THINK THAT MANY OF US JUST MISREAD WHAT YOU WERE SAYING? PROBABLY BECAUSE WE'RE CRAZY, RIGHT?! TAKE A LOOK AT THE MAN IN THE MIRROR!
FuCK YOU!
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lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:44:58 pm» quote
- has anyone else brought up scientology?
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lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:46:47 pm» quote
- please scroll up and read the responses i've already posted if you want to know my objections to what TOIM said.
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5dollarBud posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:50:19 pm» quote
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Colonial Wburg posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:43:32 pm
I LOVE ALL OF THIS "WE DIDN'T SAY THAT! WE DIDN'T SAY THAT!" BULLSHIT! DO YOU THINK THAT MANY OF US JUST MISREAD WHAT YOU WERE SAYING? PROBABLY BECAUSE WE'RE CRAZY, RIGHT?! TAKE A LOOK AT THE MAN IN THE MIRROR!
FuCK YOU!
hahahahahaha
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ghobot posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:55:49 pm» quote
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black people focus their attention on many white-centric problems, like lack of rhythm, partly because of fear that the crazies and the lack of rhythm might spread to us.
sling man, depression is really really bad in the black community.
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Colonial Wburg posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:58:07 pm» quote
- U MAD, GREG!
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 4:11:44 pm» quote
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ghobot posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:55:49 pm
black people focus their attention on many white-centric problems, like lack of rhythm, partly because of fear that the crazies and the lack of rhythm might spread to us.
obama is clearly a vector of transmission
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 4:11:59 pm» quote
- i mean, did you SEE him on ellen?
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aroundthewayboy posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 4:14:05 pm» quote
- the barber shop times lol
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erin posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 4:16:46 pm» quote
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i love this thread. some of my favorite people are here.
i would like to see more studies done on the effects of prescribing psychiactric medications to kids while the brain is still in development. this is the only area where i get "iffy" about people who need medication being on it
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theotherianmeyer posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 4:53:02 pm» quote
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lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:40:10 pm
theotherianmeyer:
some people just need to take personal responsibility for their own happiness instead of finding it in a bottle!
don't think any of us advocating less antidepressant use want physically-affected people to be denied treatment or told to "just get better", we just want the lazy people told that.
exactly! i just don't understand why when i've gone out of my way (and continue to) to point out that i'm saying this that I keep getting crazies shouting at me and saying that i'm lucky i'm being ignored or my life would be a living hell. oh well.
also:
erin posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 4:16:46 pm
...i would like to see more studies done on the effects of prescribing psychiactric medications to kids while the brain is still in development. this is the only area where i get "iffy" about people who need medication being on it
the overmedication problem in this country is especially scary when it comes to kids. the whole ADD/ADHD/whhateverthefuck "problem" has lots of sources, and its solution is not always pills, but docs and parents just want to medicate the fuck out of their kids. it seems like we're just now starting to see kids who were medicated reach adulthood (am I wrong, or didn't this trend start with around my generation? what shape are my elementary school classmates going to be in in 20 years?
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theasianelaine posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 4:56:09 pm» quote
- O_O
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lila_engel posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 5:03:31 pm» quote
- ianmeyer the other, you obviously don't understand my point. and that's okay. maybe you're just lazy.
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thomas posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 11:05:29 am» quote
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wait. hold up
giving prozac to dogs?
jesus christ. also :
the overmedication problem in this country is especially scary when it comes to kids. the whole ADD/ADHD/whhateverthefuck "problem" has lots of sources, and its solution is not always pills, but docs and parents just want to medicate the fuck out of their kids. it seems like we're just now starting to see kids who were medicated reach adulthood (am I wrong, or didn't this trend start with around my generation? what shape are my elementary school classmates going to be in in 20 years?
that's my huge issue. It is my generation I believe that really was the first to be 'medicated' from childhood (personally - I'm extremely thankful my father didn't feel the need to pump me full of pills)
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5dollarBud posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 11:11:07 am» quote
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these people just need a little tablet of harden the fuck up
WAAAAH WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
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Colonial Wburg posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 11:11:46 am» quote
- THESE DOGS JUST NEED A BISCUIT OF HARDEN THE FUCK UP!
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Lindsay Lohandjob posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 11:13:28 am» quote
- I JUST DROPPED TWO ALKA-SELTZER COLD AND HARDEN THE FUCK UP TABLETS IN MY VITAMIN WATER AND I"M FEELIN FINE
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5dollarBud posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 11:16:12 am» quote
- WOULD YOU LIKE A SLICE OF HARDEN THE FUCK UP? NO? HOW ABOUT A PINT OR PIECE OR PORTION OF HARDEN THE FUCK UP? 2 HARDEN THE FUCK UPS OVER EASY WITH A SIDE OF HARDEN THE FUCK UP COMIN UP
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Lindsay Lohandjob posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 11:18:14 am» quote
- I'M ON A LOW-CARB DIET THIS WEEK, SO I NEED MY HARDEN THE FUCK UP WITHOUT THE BREAD-CRUMB CRUST, IF THAT'S POSSIBLE. IF NOT, I'll JUST ORDER THE GLUTEN-FREE HARDEN with SAUTEED THE FUCK UP on the SIDE
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Colonial Wburg posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 11:20:34 am» quote
- I ORDERED A TALL GLASS OF HARDEN THE FUCK UP BUT IT WAS GARNISHED WITH A PAPER UMBRELLA DOES THAT STILL COUNT?
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Lindsay Lohandjob posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 11:21:46 am» quote
- marcia, gay, harden the fuck up
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theotherianmeyer posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 11:29:11 am» quote
- I had some deep-fried harden the fuck up for second breakfast this morning, and it was delicious!
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5dollarBud posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 11:30:16 am» quote
- warren, gee, harding the fuck up
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Lindsay Lohandjob posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 11:30:35 am» quote
- too bad it hasn't worked!
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9 y.o. virgin posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 11:50:41 am» quote
- WARREN YOU GLAD I DIDNT SAY HARDING
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tragicmilan posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 11:51:26 am» quote
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lindsay lohandjob posted this on February 26th, 2008 @ 3:23:07 pm
uh, have you ever been in psychiatric treatment or under the care of a therapist? because while "society" might be giving you this message (parents, the media, school? who is society?) any therapist worth their salt does not treat depression this way.
there's a lot of shitty therapists...and general practicioners prescribing these drugs as already mentioned. i dont think its a stretch that they maybe might be a little tiny bit overprescribed.
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tragicmilan posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 11:52:58 am» quote
- Also, i think the massive popularity of antidepressants relates to our consumerism fetish. its the idea that a product can bring us happiness, instead of a fulfilling way of life.
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5dollarBud posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 11:53:06 am» quote
- hahahahaha catherine
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jane moffat posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 11:53:27 am» quote
- i knew this old lady whos dog obsessively ate money. money! he woudl rip apart yr bags and go through everything and just pull out the bills and eat them. anyway they put him on prozac and he stopped, but its essentially the same thing : /
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Colonial Wburg posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 11:57:53 am» quote
- residue, baby residue.
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5dollarBud posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 11:59:02 am» quote
- hahaha
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Colonial Wburg posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 11:59:55 am» quote
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I crack myself up.
I pull myself up by the bootstraps.
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theotherianmeyer posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 12:00:11 pm» quote
- YOUR PURSE JUST NEEDED TO HARDEN THE FUCK UP AND NOT LET THAT DOG RIFLE THROUGH IT TO GET TEH CASHZ0RS
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5dollarBud posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 12:01:27 pm» quote
- bootstraps is so outdated. i'm just going to start telling people to pull up their socks.
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jane moffat posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 12:19:11 pm» quote
- pull yrself up by the velcro tabs on yr sneaks
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Colonial Wburg posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 12:23:22 pm» quote
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5dollarBud posted this on February 27th, 2008 @ 12:01:27 pm
bootstraps is so outdated. i'm just going to start telling people to pull up their socks.
In yr face. I am currently wearing boots with straps!
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